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Re: B250 Owner's reliability experiences

Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:59 am
by Bugladyhb
oilerlord wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:02 pm
... It's pretty obvious 250e's were made to be leased, not owned...
Hi Oilerlord, what makes the car “made to be leased” as opposed to owned one your opinion.?😊

Re: B250 Owner's reliability experiences

Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:59 am
by Bugladyhb
oilerlord wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:02 pm
... It's pretty obvious 250e's were made to be leased, not owned...
Hi Oilerlord, what makes the car “made to be leased” as opposed to owned one your opinion.?😊

Re: B250 Owner's reliability experiences

Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:03 pm
by oilerlord
Imo, the B250e (along with most compliance-car / small battery EV's) were made to be leased because:

- They are usually offered with huge lease incentives, but purchasing the car is typically done close to MSRP.
- You'll return your leased vehicle before battery degradation becomes an issue.
- These cars were produced in such small numbers that a replacement battery pack is ridiculously expensive... last time I checked, about $20K - close to what I paid for the entire used car! This isn't a Camry you can cheaply maintain to 300K miles.
- EV's hemorrhage their resale value like no other vehicle (perhaps Tesla notwithstanding). When you return the lease, the huge depreciation hit is the dealer's problem, not yours.
- Most MB dealerships aren't equipped to service a B250e.

With that said, for me buying a used 6,000 mile B250e made sense because the reasons above made the car inexpensive. Lease returns come in, and dealers dump them...cheap. Let's face it, people can't wrap their heads around buying a car with a winter range down to as low as 50 miles. For the few of us that can, a used short-range EV can be an incredible value.

Re: B250 Owner's reliability experiences

Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:24 pm
by FordAnglia
oilerlord wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:03 pm
Imo, the B250e (along with most compliance-car / small battery EV's) were made to be leased because:

- They are usually offered with huge lease incentives, but purchasing the car is typically done close to MSRP.
- You'll return your leased vehicle before battery degradation becomes an issue.
- These cars were produced in such small numbers that a replacement battery pack is ridiculously expensive... last time I checked, about $20K - close to what I paid for the entire used car! This isn't a Camry you can cheaply maintain to 300K miles.
- EV's hemorrhage their resale value like no other vehicle (perhaps Tesla notwithstanding). When you return the lease, the huge depreciation hit is the dealer's problem, not yours.
- Most MB dealerships aren't equipped to service a B250e.
Oilerlord,

Interesting take, while I don't agree with all your points, I'd suggest that MB entered the EV market to "test the waters". When the B250e wasn't a runaway success, they put the brakes on the program.

The B250e appeal (or lack there of) is reflected in the poor resale (and off-lease) value. The premature power train failure is not unique to the B250e as other Tesla derived marques have discovered.

Tesla started from scratch. The B250e uses the second generation motor, and quite frankly Tesla did/doesn't have enough total vehicle miles to understand long term wear and tear. Other brands have literally millions of miles of refinement for their ICE power trains.

If the B250e fits your narrow "sweet spot" for an EV vehicle, as you say, this is a bargain!

Peter,
Greetings from Harrison Hot Springs, Beautiful British Columbia. We're taking a hot tub inspired break this week!

Re: B250 Owner's reliability experiences

Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:36 pm
by Bugladyhb
Thanks Peter and Oilerlord,
This helps me get my head around why I find this car so irrationally appealing.
Do you have a sense for wether the premature power train failures are happening in the 2016 or 2017 models. It seems to be a big issue for the 14/15’s. Wondering if Mercedes got the revised versions of these DU’s when the Tesla’s did or if they kept running the original units.
Best,
Hannah

Re: B250 Owner's reliability experiences

Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:48 pm
by FordAnglia
Bugladyhb wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:36 pm
This helps me get my head around why I find this car so irrationally appealing.
Do you have a sense for wether the premature power train failures are happening in the 2016 or 2017 models. It seems to be a big issue for the 14/15’s. Wondering if Mercedes got the revised versions of these DU’s when the Tesla’s did or if they kept running the original units.
Hannah,

The optimistic assumption is that Tesla responded to the drive motor failures with a design change. The 2014 Model S (same motor as used by the 2014 B250e, but the Model S is rear wheel drive, the B250e is front wheel drive)

We don't know if those early design motors were carried over to later MY B250e vehicles.
We also don't know if the last run of B250e vehicles (MY 2017) will suffer the same fate as the earlier ones when they have 35k or more miles.

The out of warranty replacement of the EV motor is expensive, and likely to doom the vehicle to "total loss" from an economic point of view.

I'm looking forward to my 2017 B250e running until 2022, when it's California Red HOV sticker expires. Until then? Happy EV Motoring!!

Peter,

Re: B250 Owner's reliability experiences

Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:43 pm
by JeffRay
Hannah et al.,

If I were to buy one off lease, it would be a plum like my 2017 which will come off lease next year with about 12K miles. I turned my 2014 in with 10K miles and saw it being marketed in FL below my lease buyback price. This supports Peter's point that MBFS sells it at auction for something like $15K or lower. The thing is, you want the fourth year of DU warranty and five years of battery warranty.

One of the members knows where cars go to be auctioned off and armed with a VIN, one can buy an off lease B250e without the used car markup.

Re: B250 Owner's reliability experiences

Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:44 pm
by JeffRay
Peter,

Hot tub sounds dreamy. Gotta wait till end of the year when we are off on our family vacation. Lucky you.

Re: B250 Owner's reliability experiences

Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:19 pm
by oilerlord
Jeff, that's me. Mercedes sends lease returns to Manheim - the largest dealer auction network in North America. I used to import about 10-12 cars per year into Canada from the US.

If you're a dealer, you can find out what other dealers bought the cars for, and how long they've had the unit on their lot among other inside info on the vehicle. Anyway, that's how I bought most of my MB vehicles.

Peter, the B250e was never intended to be a "runaway success", They only built the car because it allowed them to continue their business of selling SUV's. Given we saw little if any marketing dollars directed to the sales of B250e's - It's a safe bet MB lost money on every B250e that rolled off the line. In all candor, every other dealer I spoke with hated selling them. The sales commission was basically non-existent, and just like the car buying public - salespeople really couldn't wrap their heads around a $50,000 100 mile car that takes 3 hours to fill up.

Re: B250 Owner's reliability experiences

Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:32 pm
by oilerlord
Bugladyhb wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:36 pm
(premature power train failures) ...seems to be a big issue for the 14/15’s.
I read about problems with Tesla motors and/or electronics in the RAV 4 EV experiment, but honestly, this is the first time I've heard about this seemingly "big" issue in the 250e - and I did a TON of research before deciding on this particular EV. Like Jeff, I'd consider picking up a low mile 2017 model should my car shit the bed down the road.